Fishtail Voices: Episode 1

Press play to:

• Understand how Overhaul embraces risk throughout the full cycle: prevention, compliance, risk mitigation and insurance;
• gasp at some fun "war" stories from the front lines of in-transit supply chain risk management;
• understand why “cargo at rest is cargo at risk,”
• and most importantly, learn from Frankie’s 20+ years of experience in the supply chain space.

We hope you enjoy and learn something new from Frankie and Ronit!

Transcript:

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Hi, Frankie. Thank you so much for joining us! Hello to anybody listening to this interview. We're super excited to have Frankie Mossman with us. She is the Chief Customer Officer at Overhaul, but she brings many years (more than two decades) of experience in the supply chain and logistics space. I won't give you too much more info on her because I'm going to pass it over for her to tell you a little bit about herself.

Frankie Mossman: Hi, thank you so much for having me! I'm excited to talk a little bit about what Overhaul does and what's happening in the risk management space. 

My name is Frankie Mossman. I'm the Chief Customer Officer at Overhaul. Overhaul is a global leader in supply chain visibility with a specific focus on risk management. Simply put, we're here to reduce risk out of supply chains, whether that is eliminating threats of theft, damages, delays, or even product integrity. 

Our company is focused on active solutions to minimize friction, ensure cargo gets to where it needs to, on time, in full, and as it was originally when it shipped out. So I'm excited to be here and talk a little bit more about risk management and the things that we do. 

In particular, my role at Overhaul is to manage the operations. I'm actually responsible for all of our customer relationships and retention. I'm also responsible for our supply chain operations and our IoT technology partnerships that we've maintained. We are device and data agnostic.

So we have an incredible supplier base that as they qualify through our processes, become part of the overhaul network to enable supply chain visibility. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Okay, amazing, Frankie. So one of the things that is so incredible about your profile that is quite uncommon, I feel like, to see nowadays is that you really grew up in this space, you were like a supply chain logistics baby. Your entire career you've spent in this space. And I think if I compare it to hospitality, an industry I know well because I was in it for a few years, it's always said when you hire a hotel manager it's super useful for them to (not useful, necessary) to spend a few days cleaning rooms with the cleaning staff and spend a few days at the restaurant, to like know the different sections of the operations and I feel like you really got a chance to do that throughout your career before you joined Overhaul and I would love if you could tell us a little bit about that. The different pockets that you were in and the experience that you bring with you prior to joining Overhaul.

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, absolutely. I grew up in front-end manufacturing operations. One of my first you know kind of serious jobs was a factory operator in a semiconductor facility here in Austin, Texas with Motorola. And it was through that process that I ended up (while getting my degree) working my way up through the management channel and really just getting addicted to manufacturing operations. I think it's in my DNA naturally, since I'm high energy. But I love the accountability. I love the analytics. I love the fact that there was, you know, healthy tension between pushing products out the door, and at the same time maintaining qualities. You have to partner very closely with engineering and maintenance. And I think at the base, I'm lucky my career started off that way because it gave me a strong sense of why data is so important and that you can't wait for perfect data. You have to be decisive, you have to be accountable, you have to have a way to kind of measure success and think about the incremental changes, right? You don't have to do a 90-foot leap or massive change on day one. You just have to do something better than you did the day before. And I got to cut my teeth in the front of operations and actually ran as a section leader multiple factory operations. And it was during that time that I got the incredible opportunity to work in supply chain. 

Looking for more people that understood the manufacturing process that could kind of help communicate the end to end planning and really understand the diagnostic, be able to work with the back end. So yeah, I would say about 25 years ago, I got a great opportunity to lead a billion dollar portfolio managing network and multimedia semiconductors across a global supply chain in Malaysia, China, the US, Europe. And that's where it started. And I haven't left. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: You mentioned in the first call we had together that back then, data wasn't used in the same way as it is now. But you entered at a time where it probably had started to weave its way into the industry, right? 

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, I would say that the need for data visibility, analytics, you know, applying some type of logic and predictability modeling, if you will, has always been a big part of the process. It's always been necessary. As we get faster, more global, more dynamic, and how we, you know, are more complicated in our supply chains, it becomes even more pressing. But I worked in an environment where it was an 18-week lead time at the time, just because of the stress of the technology. You had a dependency on how you could plan for parts based on what would yield. So you would start out, let's say at the start at 100%, but by the end of the day, be dropping, you know, anywhere, depending on the life cycle or how new the product was, or the, the edge case, tech anywhere between 20% to 60%, you would drop out, right? And then that would assume you didn't lose anything in back end processing. So you didn't have a choice. So as unsexy or unpopular as it had to be, you had to find ways to be able to collect that data, plan for it, test it, see how it would come out, and then come back and revert and change your decision process, right? Because at the same time, you couldn't build up inventory. You couldn't be too lean on inventory. You had to heat your lead times. And you were connecting, in essence, disparate organizations that were working together. So I think for me, coming into this space and the topic now about data, is sometimes I'm surprised to see how many people are still kind of waiting for the perfect sexy software to solve it all for them. And I don't think we're ever gonna be at that place. I think we have to understand where data can be corrected in real time so that the next time it's even better, but it's gotta be about incremental changes. 

Take what you've got, make a directional decision, and then drive out whatever risk or friction is slowing down your supply chain. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Yeah, that makes sense. I remember from our prior conversation, something that I really took away was the sort of gradual change from data vs. real time data. So obviously you grew up in the space in your career and the data exchange back then was not in real time yet you still aggregated the data and you still used it for actionable insights that changed the way you were doing things but it wasn't in real time. But that doesn't mean that you weren't using it. But now it is in real time, of course. We're going to be somewhere different with real time data five or ten years from now. But to your point, of course, it is crucial for it to be used now, especially in the type of world we live in and the type of risks that we're facing in the supply chains and how much they increment every year. 

And talking about the actual risks, Frankie, I'd love to go over what the most common risk scenarios are that you face. Is that something you can talk about? 

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, absolutely. Um, risk is our business here at Overhaul. So yeah, I would love to talk about that. So, you know, very fundamentally, and I know it's going to seem simple, but I think the devil's in the details is cargo at rest is cargo at risk. And then losing visibility of the cargo is risky. So that means anytime you have a container, a trailer, a palette sitting someplace and just sitting there, you're creating risk. You're either generating an opportunity for theft, you're either generating an opportunity for delay, you're generating an opportunity to lose sight of where it was, it kind of gets lost in the noise. So you always want, you know, in essence what you really want, one of my mentors, Tom Linton, he talks a lot in his books and when he does speaking events, what we need to eliminate out of the supply chain. So if you think about friction, friction means I'm rubbing up against something, it's slowing me down or I'm coming to a complete stop. So our premise is how do you keep the cargo moving and how do you identify proactively what risks are taking place? And there are four key areas that I talked about at the intro and it's really about avoiding the opportunity for cargo to be stolen, for cargo to be damaged, for cargo to be delayed, and the integrity of the cargo. I think that's one of the biggest things we're going to see coming in risk, is that the laptop that you buy or who you believe you bought it from, will not be a foreign copy, right? Or an actual mockup of something that you really intend to get. Or that what is embedded on the product is exactly what's supposed to be embedded on the product, and that nothing additional has been added on. So at the end of the day, you really wanna make sure that cargo flows, that it moves, and it doesn't have the opportunity to generate that risk. 

And one of the things I'm really excited about with Overhaul in our role in risk management visibility is that our emphasis isn't just recovery and getting that cargo to move again. It's on the proactive, compliant nature of ensuring cargo has a successful ability to keep moving. That means making sure your bill of relating, your shipment references are intact, you know who's moving it, you've vetted who's moving it, you know, any kind of critical checklist around the key components of data that needs to be understood. But before it starts its journey, all of that helps to drive compliance. And it's so important. We have some really great stories around how we've been able to recover cargo and get it back on track. or back out of a criminal's hands is one dramatic point. But we actually kind of look at that as a failure. We're really intended on getting our customers to a point they're never in that situation to even need a recovery. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Right, right, that makes sense. Well, two things here. First of all, just hearing about the most important part is interesting. I didn't know that that was sort of a saying in your space like cargo at rest is cargo at risk. It just made me think about Nemo, Dory saying “just keep swimming.” 

Frankie Mossman: Exactly. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: I think most of our audience will know of that movie. “Just keep moving. Just keep swimming.” And then also in terms of the top most common risk detection and management scenarios, I think we all, or at least I was fully aware of theft, damage, or delays. But integrity is really one that is kind of unique and different, I think. And we're probably more of like a newer threat, would you agree or are there other types of threats that are emerging? 

Frankie Mossman: I think it's one that's become definitely more likely to happen and more sensitive as it's introduced. I mean, if you think about all of the electronics that's around us today that are IoT enabled, right, like in my home alone, we've got obviously each of my family members have their personal devices. But things like our washer and dryer, our fridges, our microwaves, our TVs, all are enabled with some form of, you know, camera, microphone technology, right? So that we can do, you know, those types of engagements where we're basically using voice control, right? To have our lights turn off at a certain time of day or our ACs or heaters to turn on, you know, depending on where the sun is. A lot of automation, a lot of convenience, but there's a lot of opportunity for, you know, nefarious type of agencies to take advantage of that. So you want to ensure that the product is exactly what it is you're buying, that it's intact with the manufacturer's original bombs, chips, etcetera. So you want to make sure that all of that's in place. And so when you think about opportunities where different types of components could be added, while it's in transit or while it's going after, or even receiving a product that wasn't actually manufactured by the original person.

I think product integrity is going to be a bigger, bigger thing on the rise. And interesting enough, it's not just contained to electronics. This is happening in the cosmetics phase. It's happening in the clothing space when you're seeing a lot of counterfeits being introduced into the market. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Yeah, interesting. So definitely integrity is probably one of the newer(ish) threats that your seeing in the landscape. Any other ones that you might not be seeing yet, but that you might start to think about keeping under your radar? 

Frankie Mossman: Of how we look at risk, I think those four principal areas are where we're really looking and kind of understanding. I would say that there's probably risk associated with cybersecurity, you know, that type of component of what's happening in that space. I think that will continue to grow. 

I think what's been interesting for us is to see the tactics that people are taking to actually take advantage of cargo that is moving. We're seeing much more sophistication, the criminals are really becoming supply chain experts. I half joke, half not: these guys are becoming supply chain experts. These guys are studying where the distribution centers are. They're studying, they understand the implications of longer dwell time support and the opportunity that gives them. They've actually figured out that there are these kind of black spots that are occurring throughout the supply chains, that they can compromise. And I think that's fascinating. It's not so much that that risk hasn't been there. It's just the sophistication in how they're kind of using our own supply chain flaws against us to be able to attack cargo and to go forward. So I think that's interesting. I think the strategies that are being deployed are going to be something interesting that we watch. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Right. The tactics are interesting. So pulling on that thread Frankie...are there any sort of real life war stories (of course, not talking about the actual folks involved) that you might be able to share with us? 

Frankie Mossman: So I joined Overhaul in 2019 and one of the active things that we have, we've made an incredible investment with different agencies across the globe. Different security and law enforcement agencies that we network and we work with. We do active trainings, we work together to collaborate on risk profiles in different countries and what that might look like, what those responses are. And in response to having a network of that nature and really having a collaborative back and forth around reducing risk and what could be taking place, when an event happens, we're able to kind of leverage that. So I would say that my first few months in, I got indoctrinated very quickly into what actionable visibility really is. So when you get to a point where you've got somebody that violates that compliance and you've got a truck, let's say a trailer in danger now, and you suspect that theft is happening, Overhaul can leverage our technology to enable different agencies to partake in helping recover that cargo because we're able to do things like provide a picture, exact location of where the cargo is sitting, what the parameters of that is, what the skew numbers are, what the product level is. So having that type of data pack, obviously it's highly protected, highly confidential, but really enables the success of being able to recover. So we've got obviously great stories from that piece. 

I think one of the most memorable ones for me was we actually had several data connections with this particular cargo. And when I talk about thieves becoming supply chain experts, this particular criminal agent had actually procured their own truck, like legally procured a truck. 

They did what we call a fictitious pickup. So they pretended to be the authorized pickup carrier. They took the load, but it gets even more elaborate. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: it’s like the movies. 

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, exactly, exactly. 

So they pick up this cargo, they take off with it. They're obviously not following the correct procedure. So we're already alerting on it. And then we engage with those authority partnerships. We track down the trailer and it's completely empty. So that seems interesting, but the trailer that they find is in a different place than the other data is actually telling us. So we're like, okay, something else is going on here. And within about, I wanna say about a two to three mile radius, we were able to direct the individual on foot where to go. And sure enough, they had not just bought legally one truck, they had bought two. And what they did was they emptied out that picked it up, that we had pictures of, and it actually moved it into a second trailer, you know, kind of nuzzled away on the other side of a parking lot, that they would come back to get later, but didn't realize that we had it, the cargo was connected, and they're actually telling us, you know, hey, I'm over here, I'm over here. And so we were able to do 100% recovery, and it actually kind of pulled the thread to a much more organized element that was taking place. So that was probably one, one that comes to mind, that was the most dramatic, but we've had other situations of, you know, there was a lot of issues with containers being held up. 

Ronit Spiwav Wolf: Was that in a hot zone, Frankie? I remember you talking about that.

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, we have a fundamental logic that we have, that our CEO and founder actually kind of coined and is driven as a personal philosophy, he's been in cargo security for a long time, is a red zone. So we basically track between 150 to 200 miles, very specific alerts and events from the origin, right? A Geofence ordered from that might of miles, because typically that is when cargo would be attacked. But we also have the ability through our technology to geofence what we call “hot zones” that are also high risk areas where a lot of cargo activity might be taking place. So if any type of event happens in one of those geofence locations or polygeofence, we act on that obviously in a much more accelerated manner because that definitely decides that there's probably more risk taking place.

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Okay, and I assume a lot of what's taking place here before entering, knowing that they might enter a hot zone or they'll be passing through a hot or red zone, there's a lot of proactive alerts going on? 

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, I mean, as cool as it is to have these stories and to be a part of those processes where we get to recover cargo back, again, what we really go back to is, we post mortem and we do an incident summary with every customer after any type of event. And one of the things we talk about is: okay, what could have been done before the truck ever left the site? Right. And there's always, inevitably very basic fundamental things. Down to ensuring that the driver spells his name the way he's supposed to be spelling his name on who's supposed to be coming to pick up. Do they have an authorized DOT number? Do they understand what the protocols are? Are they willing to sign that off?

Our big success, honestly, this is where I geek out, is on driving compliance. Whenever we take over a program, usually the first couple of days, the first two weeks, a customer will be frustrated with me like, Frankie, there's no way my network was this bad. I'm not buying this. And once we get into third week, they kind of realize that the good news is now they know they have a problem, right? And even better news is they've got targeted data down to the carrier level, the truck driver level on how to improve that and how to make it better. So it's exciting to watch a customer go from like, you know, 20 to 40% compliance and then drive their network up to 60 or 70% compliance and really start to use real data in their procurement processes and how they're organizing freight and what partners they're actually with. That's when I think it gets cool because you're eliminating friction, you're allowing the cargo to get to where it goes and sure maybe there isn't sexy exciting police stories that I could tell but for me I think that's where it gets exciting. As a supply chain practitioner that's what I think is cool, the real data to make your network better. 

Ronit Spiwav Wolf: Yeah, and being able to leverage data from one scenario, from one customer, and transferring over what that means for another customer in the same space, in the same region, procuring from the same trucking company, etc. Cross-pollination. 

Frankie Mossman: Bingo, that's exactly right. Cross-pollination. Yep, yep. Crowdsourcing information almost in a sense. Yeah, yeah. 

Ronit Spiwav Wolf: All right, so I guess this leads me to our next question, which is really the importance of the partnerships, the third-party partnerships in this space. Is that something that you could talk about and how does Overhaul think about these third-party partnerships and how do you work with them?

Frankie Mossman: So first and foremost, I mean, just very simply, absolutely. Third party relationships are super critical. I mean, I think where we've come is that I think core companies are understanding that their partners, their suppliers are part of their execution, are part of their success ring of getting cargo through. Everybody is there on the same mission. They want to be able to accomplish the same job. So I mean, it's super critical. Like if you're not treating your partners, or see, I just said it, partners, if you're not treating your suppliers as real partners, bringing them to the table, being transparent of what problems you're trying to solve and how you're solutioning, you're not going to survive. You're not going to be able to continue to do business. I think that's probably violently the most critical thing we all have to start opening our minds to is that we can't treat suppliers as this second player, or just when we're angry or what have you. They need to be a part of it.

What I love about our technology is the fact that we allow that cooperative conversation to go through. So we just spend a lot of time talking about being proactive driving up compliance and making that happen. In those first two weeks, I'll inevitably have a customer tell me how they know everything has to be perfect. Then they see the data and they're kind of in this denial. But on the flip side, I have a lot of transportation folks, logistics folks, that are kind of angry with me going like, “you're just tattle telling me on the customer, I don't believe your data, show it to me.” And what's great about our tech is that we have the ability to assign, you know, like if you were moving for a particular company, I can give you access to just your shipments and now you have access to how well your drivers are compliant. What your customer is doing, are you showing up for a 4 p.m. pickup time, but they keep delaying you until seven? So now it becomes a two-way feedback. It's not just feedback about the driver, feedback about the carrier, it's feedback about what's happening in the supply chain and how those can come together to improve it. We've had, this is one that I think is actually a sexy story, we had one of our OEM manufacturers who was a customer who had multiple brokers kind of realized that they were setting the transportation network for failure because they were basically sending out deliveries too early so they ended up having to be in scary places for a day or two before they could actually deliver to the final location. So what they ended up doing is changing their planning profile to shorten the window so instead of having somebody sitting outside of Atlanta, Georgia or in Memphis or just outside of Dallas, Texas now that person could go straight in and deliver the load versus having that opportunity. Remember cargo at rest is cargo at risk. So they work together to solve a problem instead of beating up the transportation provider saying, well, why are you stopping? Well, I'm stopping because you're giving me the load too early. We were able to provide that transparency. So that's what I get excited about, the cooperation and the fact that we can now connect the dots in that entire supply chain ecosystem.

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Yeah. And I mean, something like showing up too early is not necessarily thought of as a risk, right? 

Frankie Mossman: Exactly. Exactly. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Yeah. So it's interesting that the data sort of surfaces that and brings it to be visible to both parties, or all parties involved. Alrighty. To close the loop here as our last question:

Overhaul is a pretty new company. I know you joined around four years ago and they were around a couple years before you joined, but curious to hear from you if there's anything that you're working on over at Overhaul that might launch soon or that has recently launched? Would love to hear a little bit about that. 

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, Overhaul has been around for six years, and we've had some incredible growth. We've got some fantastic customers that we're super excited about. We just recently closed them in acquisition for SenseGuard, a formerly known as Freight Watch, that we acquired on February 2nd. Freight Watch was known for their cargo security platform and methodology, so we're really excited to bring that DNA. At this point in time we are now literally the global leader when it comes to cargo security. I mean we want to take that and you know proliferate that obviously there are other risk management products around visibility you know so that we do with delays and making sure people know where their cargo is at any given time. We also want to do that with product integrity as well as ensuring quality. So we do a lot in the in the pharma life sciences space. We also do a lot in perishables. So we just you know want to make sure that our whole risk cycle is completely through. It is really exciting to have that team join a board. And it's been exciting to kind of have that adoption coming through. 

One of the other biggest things that we're doing is really focusing. We talked about data and everybody complains that data is incomplete. It's not great. And you'll hear people who are selling supply chain visibility actually say on the talk circuit, “well, when customers fix their data, things are going to get a lot better.” We really need the customers to own their data. And look, it's never going to happen. Like, my job is not to sit here and wait for that. My job is to figure out how I orchestrate incrementally improving the data for my customer base every single day. 

One of the things I love about what we are doing is, leading in identifying partnerships with data aggregators. So we have a lot of great partnerships around the IoT hardware space because we're device agnostics, that's great because we're able to use the best of breed. If we're using you in Overhaul, that means that it's a device that we've proven can work at scale. But on the same hand, we're also data agnostic. So if there's a way I can help ensure that the right vessel numbers are associated with the container because there's rollovers or there may have been a change in selling or whatever, I want to be able to do that for the clients. So really indoctrinate that concept of: I have this bare minimum data element, how can I supplement it with others to ensure I have complete contextual visibility of a shipment moving at any given time regardless of the initial data quality? If I can do that in real time and correct it, then I've done it for that shipment. But I've also probably done it for the next shipment or the next 10 shipments that are coming through. So I love the fact that we're trying to be independent around that, and that we're continuing looking at data partners to also help us with that piece. 

And then last but not least, we announced an insurance product. So we like being the guys that are embracing risk through the full cycle, right? So we want to prevent risk. We want to be proactive about driving compliance and helping our customers understand what their network quality is today. We want to help mitigate when a risk does actually occur, and then we want to close that loop with an insurance product, which is really exciting and we are seeing a lot of interest in the industry. So that's been pretty cool to see too. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Okay, Franky, a couple of questions related to this. Thank you for that beautiful overview of what's been in the works, what's cooking and the new plans over at Overhaul. Was this the first acquisition that Overhaul did? 

Frankie Mossman: Yes, this is our first acquisition, yes. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Okay, and are there other sort of areas of risk management that Overhaul wants to get into eventually? 

Frankie Mossman: We want to continue to be world leaders in risk management and eliminating that friction out of the supply chain. So I think my short answer is we're always gonna be looking for an opportunity to be able to enable that offering into further secure our space. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Okay, just out of curiosity, what are some of the partners that you work with? 

Frankie Mossman: So we're working with folks that are doing a lot of stuff in data aggregation. If you look at things like container tracking, milestone event, collections, etc. So really around those types of categories. We had a longstanding relationship already with things like weather and traffic overlays, information around how vessels move, integrations with that, integrations with different flight software, tracking airplanes, etc. All of that kind of incorporates in, because again, if I have a shipment reference with one common denominator data element, I can bring that all together to not only say hey, it went to this airport, but it's on this flight. And this is when this guy's been alive and it's landing at this airport, et cetera. And specifically around container movement with everything that we saw during COVID and just the delays at the ports, etc, just the ability of being able to get clients visibility on their dwell times at different ports, the performance there. I mean, we were seeing things where a container could arrive and turn over and be on its way out within two weeks with another container that had been sitting there maybe 90 days already.

So things like that, right? To really kind of help the supply chain team better optimize and help work with their drayage partners, right? To get the right containers coming out. So we're trying to partner in areas where it can supplement data around the individual package or the individual shipment. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Right, okay, awesome. And I realized one of the things we actually didn't talk about, so would love to quickly hear your answer (and I promise this is the last question). Geographically, can you tell what are some of the areas that you focus on versus some of the areas that you want to start getting more involved with in the world? 

Frankie Mossman: So today we are very active in inbound movement, specifically coming out of China, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, and in Philippines. Philippines is actually one of the most recent countries that we've onboarded. Indonesia is about to come. Obviously going into the US, Canada, mainland Europe and into South America. We have an active presence in Mexico, South Africa. In terms of inbound transportation movement, a lot of cross-border activity. We are heavy in Europe, we're heavy in the US and Canada and through the acquisition that is going to give us a very strong foothold in Brazil. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Okay, amazing. Great to hear. 

Frankie Mossman: Just as an interesting stat, last year alone we onboarded over 1000 origin locations, which is pretty exciting. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: Wow! And that's a thousand different cities? 

Frankie Mossman: Well, it's a thousand different unique locations for a customer. So if you think about it, like even if you talk about one of our logistics customers, they might have 30 distribution centers, right? They need to be onboarded because they're going to be tracking. Okay. So when you think about customers we've onboarded and then the number of origins we've had to bring on, that's kind of what that looks like. So yeah, pretty interesting.

Ronit Spiwak Wolf: So does that mean that you have a thousand new sort of data points? 

Frankie Mossman: Yeah, on the information that's tracking through. Yeah, exactly. 

Ronit Spiwak Wolf:Yeah, that's amazing. So really, the more you grow, the more you grow! 

All right, Frankie, well, thank you so much. This was so fun. I learned so much. Thank you for being our very first guest on this new show. I can't wait to share it with the logistics world. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you being here, and it was so nice to meet you.

Frankie Mossman: Nice to meet you too. Thank you so much.